#6: Camp Confidence
Photography by Kelly Sturgiss. Image supplied by Girls Rock! Canberra
Episode Description
We spend time at a camp that takes the competition and exclusivity out of music making, to inspire confidence and connection. We hear from young people, musicians and mentors from Girls Rock! and hang out at the inaugural Rainbow Rock Camp to look at the transformative nature of group music making.
In this episode
Guests: Jen Cloher, Chiara Grassia, Shannon Driscoll, Charlie and Carla.
Intro Theme: First Kiss Goodnight - “Story One”
Music Credits: Sidharta - “Lightstream”, Lately Kind Of Yeah - “Pilot”, Llamame La Muerte - “Where The Sun Is Trading Shadow”, Davey Lane - “Another Brick In The Wall”, Jen Cloher, Courtney Barnett & Steph Hughes - “Rebel Girl”, Parallel Park - “Flotsam”, Davey Lane & Annaliese Redlich - “Coffee Cannon”, My Knees Hurt - “Paper Bags”.
All Ears is produced and presented by Annaliese Redlich, with mentorship and editorial support from Beth Atkinson-Quinton and the Broadwave team.
Get in touch
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Annaliese Redlich [00:00:03] You're with Annaliese on All Ears, and on this episode, we head to camp.
[00:00:21] And, it's not the tent and bonfire type of camp, but the music kind. Right now it's Friday afternoon and it's the last day.
Girls Rock! organiser [00:00:38] One, two, three, rock!
[00:00:39] We are at the Wick Rehearsal Studios in an inner suburb of Melbourne for the inaugural Rainbow Rock Camp, which is being run by 'Girls Rock! Melbourne'. 'Girls Rock!' is a school holiday program for girls, trans and non binary youth. It's a mentorship program that uses music to help young people express themselves and be confident. And this is their first ever 'Rainbow Rock Camp', which is for LGBTQIA+ youth, their friends and allies.
Charlie [00:01:09] Hi, Charlie. I use they/them pronouns.
Annaliese Redlich [00:01:13] What do you play?
Charlie [00:01:15] I play drums here, but I also play ukulele out of this. Well, everyone's written their own song, and um... Our band if called 'My Knees Hurt'. There's also a story behind that. Um...
Annaliese Redlich [00:01:31] What's the story?
Charlie [00:01:38] The lead singer of um, just randomly said "my knees hurt!", and we all found that funny and it just turned into a band name. Um, we're just playing one song and our song is called 'Paper Bags'. It's kind of about coming out, but not obviously.
Carla [00:01:53] Hi, um, my name's Carla. I'm fifteen. I use she/her pronouns and we've written our own song. It's about changing the world, I guess. And um, we're called 'The Ambidextrous Hand'. We've got Mika as our bassist, Imogen on drums, Matilda on, oh, sorry, Mika is our guitarist, Matilda's our bassist. They've all actually kind of swapped instruments for the week. So, they're all learning a new instrument.
Annaliese Redlich [00:02:19] Who is your favorite musician?
Charlie [00:02:21] Pink or Lizzo.
Carla [00:02:21] Um, at the moment. I'm really loving Arctic Monkeys, but um, vocally, I've forever been in love with Ella Fitzgerald— I love her!
Annaliese Redlich [00:02:34] How did you feel on Monday morning when you were coming into the first day?
Carla [00:02:37] I was really excited. I love meeting new people. And um, I don't know, I just had this sense of fate where I knew that I would end up jamming with really cool people. (laughs). So I was just trying to say hi to everyone.
Annaliese Redlich [00:02:50] How did you feel coming into camp on the first day, Charlie?
Charlie [00:02:53] Extremely anxious. I was pacing up and down the walkway. I normally get anxious in social situations though.
Annaliese Redlich [00:03:03] My youngest self can absolutely identify with this feeling. I hated school and really hated camp and used to get sick with anxiety whenever I had to go. And it's funny because I always felt like I was the only one who experienced this. But not feeling supported, encouraged or safe at school or in learning environments is sadly all too common. And it's something that Girls Rock! wanted to change. The camp started in Portland around the year 2000 and have now spread all over the world.
Chiara Grassia [00:03:34] Girls Rock! is really important in creating a very safe, inclusive space for um, people to meet and share ideas and learn together as well.
Annaliese Redlich [00:03:44] This is Chiara Grassia. She's a muso, writer, researcher and the founder and director of Girls Rock! Canberra, which was the first one in Australia that started in 2016. She doesn't describe Girls Rock! as a music camp.
Chiara Grassia [00:03:59] You know music education is there, but um, we're also teaching people enough that they can pick up an instrument within a week and the focus isn't on technical skills. It's on how you interpret the instrument as well, what you want to play, you have what sounds that you want to make and how you interact with writing music and playing music. All the, um, classes are quite tailored to the individual, actually, um, in terms of like, skill level and ability and experience. And also just interest in what they want to learn, what the kids want to play. It's an alternative, it's also like there's not a lot of music school holiday programs for young people to be a part of that doesn't require extensive knowledge of an instrument. It's a starter. So, you know, you can go to a Girls Rock! program and not know anything and um, and be able to attend and be able to learn and feel confident at the end of it. Whereas, you know, it's also it's breaking down the access as well. You don't have to have two years of experience. You don't have to bring your own instrument. You don't have to have access to all these um, all these things because not everyone does! Not everyone has, you know, two years plus of private lessons.
Annaliese Redlich [00:05:15] While Girls Rock! provides a place for kids to discover things for and about themselves as individuals, the emphasis on collaboration and the shared experience is really important. It also provides kids a rare and often much needed opportunity to meet new people outside of their families and school groups. On the first day, the kids are put into bands with people they don't know and assigned an instrument they don't play. Over the week, the mentors show them how to play their instruments, write songs, make band merch. There are confidence workshops and lunchtime concerts from local bands, too, with Q&A sessions. The week ends with the bands playing their songs on a big stage in a showcase. There's no failure or grading, which really shifts the atmosphere to one of inclusion and playing around. It puts everyone on a level playing field.
Chiara Grassia [00:06:00] Everyone is learning something new that week. So, whether that is they're learning an instrument for the first time, whether they are learning how to playing a band together or just like, make a new set of friends.
Annaliese Redlich [00:06:12] Chiara first heard about Girls Rock! as a teenager in an interview with the band Sleater-Kinney. It was described as a punk rock feminist utopia.
Chiara Grassia [00:06:21] Yeah, as a teenager, I like I loved music. I kind of, just, listened to as much as I could, read about music as much as I could. Didn't have people around me who wanted to play.
Annaliese Redlich [00:06:32] The program stayed in the back of her mind 'til she finished her undergrad in sociology. She was all fired up about these theories of social change but couldn't find practical applications. So, she saved up and went to a camp in Portland and was blown away. She was witnessing real practical social change before her eyes, and it was life changing.
Chiara Grassia [00:06:53] And then going to actually being part of the um, rock-n-roll camp for girls in Portland, it was really nice to be exposed to like a community of people who were just like... women just forming bands and not really caring about how tactical they were and stuff, and that was really, really empowering for me. And it is so fun to just hang out with your friends and play music, and that's can be a really fun activity that you can do. You don't even have to play a show or even finish a song, but just like having an activity like that is really pleasurable. Like it feels good to be in your body in that way of like playing music and being present. I think that's also part of Girls Rock! it's like, oh, here is something that you can do with your friends. And if the kids, like, never play music again after the program, maybe they'll be really into screen printing or improv comedy, or maybe they want to get into sound. You know, maybe they want to get into like, music photography or something. That's just other avenues. It doesn't have to be performing or playing.
Annaliese Redlich [00:07:56] Chiara kept saving up and going over to the States to visit Girls Rock! camps but she wanted it to come to Australia and knew that she had to make it happen. And many others stepped up to help it spread. And Chiara has a self-described love-hate relationship with Canberra, but she was part of a very supportive scene of creatives, and they pulled together the first Girls Rock! camp in Australia in our nation's capital in 2016. The first camp had 40 kids, around 30 adults, and a bunch of those adults then formed camps across the country.
Chiara Grassia [00:08:26] It was the right time. I think people were sort of restless and ready. It's a testament to the structure of the program and the idea of it that you can adapt it into different cities and environments. Yeah, it still always, sort of works, and it is all about the community of people who are behind it.
Annaliese Redlich [00:08:44] She has a lot of great memories from camps over the years, but her fondest is seeing the campers grow up.
Chiara Grassia [00:08:49] Last year when we ran our fourth program, yeah it was our first year we had two former campers who have been campers, interns and then mentors. So they were both 18, and it was just so lovely to see that transition. And it's about sharing knowledge and sharing abilities and coming together and helping each other. You do need like, a range of skills, and not everyone is going to have all those skills. It is great to be able to swap things and share together. And that's what builds a community.
Annaliese Redlich [00:09:20] Community is so important in this story and so is confidence. Confidence is a key tool in actioning your thoughts and dreams. Also, in risk taking and bouncing back after inevitable failure. Confidence is also self-perpetuating. So when you have it, it seems to multiply and feed off itself. And when you don't, it can be debilitating and have lifelong effects. Women, non-binary and gender diverse people are still underrepresented in all aspects of the music industry. Research is limited to the experience of people who identify inside the gender binary, but it suggests that around age 12, the confidence levels of boys and girls, which is generally on par up until this point changes dramatically. While boys remain generally on an upward trajectory, studies show that girls self-confidence dramatically drops on average by about 30 percent at this age, regardless of actual ability. This shows us that adolescence is a key time to nurture the confidence crisis faced by girls, particularly in an underrepresented area like music. And this is why Girls Rock! is so important. After all, you can't be what you can't see.
Annaliese Redlich [00:10:34] Things have changed a lot in the past fifteen years since Girls Rock! started in Portland. Chiara says that there is an ongoing conversation about changing the name so it doesn't just speak to cis or trans girls or gender diverse youth. This is the first Rainbow Rock camp, but they are keen to look at other gaps in the music industry other than gender. Girls Rock! can play a role in expanding access to other underrepresented groups in music, encouraging People Of Colour or more programs in regional areas. It's also about creating places for people of those backgrounds and experiences to step up to leadership positions too.
Chiara Grassia [00:11:07] As women, you know, we're socialized to be quiet, to not speak up until we are exactly sure about what we're going to say and if it's legitimate. We feel, because it's reinforced over and over, that we might be tied down for expressing ourselves. Girls Rock! is a nice space to like be messy and embrace failure and all learn together and, and also just centring the voices of young people because working with young people, it's so fucking cool. This generation is this that makes you feel really hopeful for the world.
Annaliese Redlich [00:11:44] Right now, the campers are on an afternoon break and some are sitting in groups and excitedly chatting and some one-on-one just hanging out. I can see some kids outside getting their band photos taken, wearing the band shirts they've made this week. It's really sweet. And there are a bunch of adults, too, with clipboards at tables, talking to kids, organizing things, and possibly the busiest adult of all is this one.
Shannon Driscoll [00:12:07] You caught me at a really stressed time (laughs) Today i've been doing this for two weeks straight now. Um, I feel like my brain is running on the smell of an oily rag at the moment.
Shannon Driscoll [00:12:18] My name is Shannon Driscoll and I am the Executive Director of Girls Rock! Melbourne.
Annaliese Redlich [00:12:22] Shannon co-founded Girls Rock! Melbourne with her band mate Sally in 2015. Their experience playing together in an all female garage band saw them more often than not as the only women in all male lineups. And on the occasion they did encounter other female bands, they felt an uncomfortable sense of competition with them. They realized they needed to change their mindset, help build each other up and address the gender inequality in music. They put together a core group of organizers and volunteers and Girls Rock! Melbourne put on their first event in January 2017.
Shannon Driscoll [00:12:54] I think it's important for a lot of different reasons: community building and just giving people who might not feel like it in their outside life, a place where their voice really matters and they are encouraged to share their opinions and be creative, and do you like healthy, creative processing of emotion instead of anything more destructive. And I think also people growing up and going to school and doing music in school are often competing for a spot. They're auditioning for something. They want to get the chair. They are, you know, actively seeing the people playing music with them as their competition. And what this is doing is kind of changing that script to be like this is your team and almost have more of a sports mentality, like these are your teammates and you're meant to work with them to achieve a goal together. And I think that's really important, and I think it breaks down those stereotypes about women being catty and competing with each other, and um, there's more space than just for one all girl band, or you know, or like one female bass player, or one whatever. I think we're really trying to emphasize that there space for everyone and that we should all be on each other's side. We're all just one music community.
Annaliese Redlich [00:14:07] And Girls Rock! campers have received some pretty big attention from some of the rock establishment. When Roger Waters of Pink Floyd was on tour in 2018, he needed some kids to perform the classic track 'Another Brick in the Wall'. He wanted kids that came from low income and disadvantaged backgrounds, and they performed for three nights to a packed arena. It was a huge deal and an incredible experience for the kids.
Shannon Driscoll [00:14:33] Some of the kids had no idea who he was, and they were like, "my mum is really excited!" (laughs) "...my parents are really excited. I don't know who this is though." It was the coolest experience.
Annaliese Redlich [00:14:50] Excitement levels seem to be up a few notches. The campers are about to play their songs to each other for the first time. It's a dress rehearsal ahead of their live showcase tomorrow. It's a pretty steep learning curve in one week.
Annaliese Redlich [00:15:05] Hey Carla, is this your band? Or your friends?
Carla [00:15:10] Oh, these these are my friends. My band is over there.
Annaliese Redlich [00:15:13] So you're about to get up and do your, um, dress rehersal aren't you?
Carla [00:15:16] Yeah, I'm going to go have a look at the running list.
Annaliese Redlich [00:15:18] Cool.
Girls Rock! organiser [00:15:19] "One, two, three, rock! 'My Knees Hurt' are on first so if you can get to side of stage so we can start getting you ready and prepped."
Carla [00:15:28] This is Charlie's band.
Annaliese Redlich [00:15:35] So tomorrow, there's a big live showcase happening at the Corner Hotel. Do you wanna tell me a little bit about that, Carla?
Carla [00:15:43] Well, I haven't really been told too much about the actual, like, logistics of how things are going to turn out, but, um, I know that we're all going to be performing to each other and anyone else that decides to show up. I'm anxiously excited, but I hope that everyone else enjoys it and doesn't feel like like terrified and anxious and hates it because it's really a fun experience being onstage.
Annaliese Redlich [00:16:08] And do you have people that are going to be in the audience tomorrow from your friends or family?
Carla [00:16:13] Yeah, yeah. I'm definitely sure my parents are coming on. I think some of my friends might be coming as well.
Charlie [00:16:24] My parents are coming and two of our close family friends are coming. All of my friends live like three hours away, so they wouldn't be able to come.
Annaliese Redlich [00:16:34] Best of luck! As they say—break a leg for tomorrow! I'm sure you're going to rock.
Charlie [00:16:39] Thank you.
Carla [00:16:42] Thanks.
Annaliese Redlich [00:16:42] There are about 20 to 30 volunteers and mentors per day at Rainbow Rock and up to 50 or 60 Girls Rock! camp. They help out in all sorts of roles, at different times or on different days. Or, for the whole week. And a whole bunch of bands and artists had mentors or played at camps over the years. And I was curious about this experience for a particularly established musician.
Jen Cloher [00:17:03] My name's Jen Cloher, I'm a songwriter and a performer and sometimes educator. I also co-founded a label based in Melbourne called Milk Records.
Annaliese Redlich [00:17:16] Jen first heard about Girls Rock! camp in the USA, and then she was asked to play a lunchtime show at the first ever camp in Canberra in 2015 with other musicians, Courtney Barnett and Steph Hughes. They played a cover of Bikini Kills' Rebel Girl. You can hear it in the background now, which, by the way, many people have mentioned as their all time camp highlight. The experience made a strong impression on Jen, too.
Jen Cloher [00:17:41] I just was blown away. I was just like, oh my God. You know, this would have been where I would have spent every waking hour, you know. They got to make their own zines, they made up their own band names, they, you know, wrote songs, they got to perform at a concert. I gave a workshop on how to start a label to like seven, eight and nine year olds. They've really got it. They were like, "ah yeah, that's great. That's a really good idea. Good on you!" (laughs).
Jen Cloher [00:18:14] It's really important for forums, you know, to exist outside of formal funded bodies, um, and systems like schools or universities or colleges. Girls Rock! camp is really special in that it provides that space, more than anything, you know, for people to understand themselves and to feel their identity, however, that, you know, unfolds for them. And I think that's really key is that there's a creative outlet and that whether or not they go on to be professional musicians or even pursue music on any level, it doesn't really matter. Spaces like Girls Rock! camp are there for people to just express themselves and be themselves and not feel like they're judged, and not for like they have to fit in anywhere. It's a really smart idea. It's a very simple idea, but it's a really smart idea.
Chiara Grassia [00:19:17] I would have loved to have this program as a kid, and it's still the same with all the people that I worked with and all the mentors that we have. That's a very common motivation to be involved with these programs, is like, "I wish I had this!" And it does kind of, weirdly give you some closure on your teenage self too. Seeing all these amazing, sweet teens just find themselves and find each other. Particularly if you were kind of like a weirder kid who felt really isolated and sad and stuff. (laughs) It's nice.
Annaliese Redlich [00:19:47] I have to say that this story has brought up a lot for a young Annaliese Redlich. I was a pretty anxious kid. In fact, that's probably an understatement. I was taller and bigger than everyone else. I developed early and I had zero confidence. I pretty much don't remember a day between the ages of eight and 15 where I didn't feel like a total freak. In my natural state, I was pretty extroverted and my parents used to say that I was a born performer, but kids can get pretty feral, and I was bullied and certainly didn't trust teachers after experiencing way more nasty ones than supportive ones. Thus, I hated school and I hated camp. But boy, did I love music. And this wasn't nurtured at school. I remember going to some school holiday music camps and learning one song that stays with me to this day...
Annaliese Redlich [00:20:42] (sings) C-O-F-F-E-E - Coffee is not for me. It's a drink some people wake up with, that it makes you nervous, is-s no-o myth. Say to a coffee cup. They can't give coffee up! (stops singing).
Annaliese Redlich [00:21:05] What the hell! What kind of person teaches these to kids! Anyway, I listen to music and sang and played in my room all the time. I had one hopeless music teacher after another, peaking with a terrible bully of a teacher in high school. So I dropped the subject altogether. I pretty much thought that the world of playing music with other people was not for me. I was also intimidated due to the fact that my brother and dad were really musically gifted and I loved both of them, but they were pretty competitive, and instead of being motivated by this, it had the complete opposite effect. I just felt I wasn't good enough to play, but I did end up playing music. It took till my mid 20s before I couldn't hold back anymore. And I stopped giving a shit about what anyone else thought of me. I realized that this was the most nourishing and powerful way for me to express and connect with myself and with other people. I never thought to do it as a job, nor did I want to. I just wanted to fill all my time making different kinds of sounds with friends and different bands playing every weekend. I had always written out my feelings and experiences into songs. They just stayed in various journals and never, ever got shared. But now they had a place in the world for me, and the expressing of this stuff put me in touch with myself in the most profound way. I wonder how different things would have been for me if I hadn't had that angst and embarrassment around my musical ability and creative self. Imagine if I'd found a place as a young person where I didn't have to fit in, but could just be. And I think this is what resonates with me so strongly about Girls Rock! And there is something cathartic about seeing these kids experience these. And finally, there is something healing about telling you my story, too, about not being ashamed of myself anymore.
Annaliese Redlich [00:23:17] So what do you want to do with this after camp? Any, any thoughts for the future?
Carla [00:23:23] Well, unfortunately, the people in my band, we, we vibe so much, but we all live in really completely different parts of Melbourne so I doubt that we'll be able to continue rocking on but I definitely think we'll stay in touch.
Charlie [00:23:41] Yeah, well, I honestly thought that I would that I wasn't going to make any friends, but I have a great group of people that I hang out with. So it's going to be really sad tomorrow.
Annaliese Redlich [00:23:55] Do you think you'll stay in touch with them?
Charlie [00:23:57] I really hope so. I just love the whole camp. Well, after I get over my anxiety I love meeting new people and I love playing music. I love the bands. I love... everything.
Annaliese Redlich [00:24:10] Do you think that this has helped you along a bit in your anxiety?
Charlie [00:24:15] Yep, definitely. It's made me come out my shell more. Like, music has helped me feel a lot of situations.
Annaliese Redlich [00:24:28] And what more can we really say?
Annaliese Redlich [00:24:32] But now, without further ado, it's time for the debut of Charlie's band, My Knees Hurt with Paper Bags.
[00:26:04] (My Knees Hurt - Paper Bags, starts to play).
Annaliese Redlich [00:26:04] Big things to Chiara, Shannon and all the Girls Rock! crew, to Jen Cloher and our campers: Carla and Charlie. May they continue to rock out! Thanks also to Beth Atkinson-Quinton for editorial support and Davey Lane, who helped out with music on this episode.
[00:26:26] We'll see you next time on All Ears.
[00:26:41] A little reminder that you can connect with me online via Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at hear all ears, thats H-E-A-R All Ears, and full transcripts of each show are available on the Broadwave website. Plus, the other shows that they're putting out, they're great.
Multiple voices [00:26:59] [SFX: Broadwave, Broadwave, Broadwave, Broadwave, Broadwave.]